Fort Riley atheist soldier speaks out on lawsuit

From the article:

Known as "the atheist guy," [U.S. Army Specialist Jeremy] Hall has been called immoral, a devil worshipper and — just as severe to some soldiers — gay, none of which, he says, is true. Hall even drove fellow soldiers to church in Iraq and paused while they prayed before meals.

"I see a name and rank and United States flag on their shoulder. That's what I believe everyone else should see," he said.
.....
Hall was a gunner on a Humvee, which took several bullets in its protective shield. Afterward, his commander asked whether he believed in God, Hall said.

"I said, 'No, but I believe in Plexiglas,'" Hall said. "I've never believed I was going to a happy place. You get one life. When I die, I'm worm food."

The issue came to a head when, according to Hall, a superior officer, Maj. Freddy J. Welborn, threatened to bring charges against him for trying to hold a meeting of atheists in Iraq. Welborn has denied Hall's allegations.

Comments

[asdhjfasd]

I have to say he was pretty damn stupid to join the military. That was his biggest mistake. If you don't believe in god, don't join a jihad.

[Virgil]

I am glad to see someone standing up for his athiest beliefs, it's hard to comprehend how a man can say that he follows gods word while being something so evil to a fellow man for nothing more than not believing in god,

[Dillon]

Personaly, i dont think some one who truely believes their men are going to a better place when they die is the best person to lead them into battle.

[Jordan]

The United States Army is now and has long been an Evangelical organization.

Everyone knows this. It isn't a secret.

An atheist should no more volunteer for the Army than an atheist should join an Evangelical church.

I am an atheist myself; but I have no sympathy for fools who join organizations that are openly hostile to their worldview, and then complain when they are not welcomed.

If you really wanted to change this state of affairs, you wouldn't join the Army and then whinge about it.

You would start a grass-roots organization to lobby the politicians who control the Army, and get them to pass legislation that will prohibit required prayer meetings and open avowals of religious sentiment in the Armed Forces -- something that ought to be prohibited under the Constitution, anyway. (This is an issue of Church and State, not Freedom of Speech, after all.)

That is a better way to serve your country.

[Religious Right Watch]

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) is dedicated to ensuring that all members of the United States Armed Forces fully receive the Constitutional guarantees of religious freedom.

[Hobo 42]

Hello, I'm an Atheist, and I approve this message.

Hey, I got an idea, lest press charges on the U.S. Army for being intolerant of other peoples belief.

[Jerry]

>"I have to say he was pretty damn stupid to join the military. That was his biggest mistake. If you don't believe in god, don't join a jihad."
>

Is that what the U.S. is there for?
"jihad" is there war on us for our beliefs, last time I read my my wrights I could beleave what I want to.

My creed as always been "God country family"

Now as an atheist, it's me, as part of this country and my family.

If 'God" was going to save us the the military (your reason not to join) would be nothing more then monks preying for our country and families.

I will tell you, if you enter my house I will not look to a god, I will not look to my government and I will not look to my family to stop you. If that means a baseball bat to the head, a knife to the neck or a few 45s to the chest 'I' will stop you.

Find a god in that!

[Crimson]

The commander asked a stupid question that he should not have asked.

One needn't have a god to want to fight for his country. One need only have a country and the will to fight for it.

[Saneo]

"bring charges against him for trying to hold a meeting of atheists in Iraq"
Seriously, you can actually do that?
American law is so f*cked up.

[Atheistically Yours]

I am PROUD that this atheist is serving our country! America needs more like him! What I would like to know is how the idiot Major (who should be court-martialed, AND immediately retired!) can PERSEUCUTE an atheist for "having a meeting of other atheists", even IF "in Iraq". Granted, the military is not known for it's fairness to it's own, but persecution of one of it's own on trumped-up charges?? How low CAN they go?

[Josh]

An Athiest,

I Personally Don't Know How Someone Could Look Down On A Person That's Willing To Risk Their Lives, For The Sake Of Anothers Life... Religious Or Not... Heaven Or Hell... Whether People Believe Each Other Or Not It Shouldn't Be Our Ultimate Battle. Who's Right, Who's Wrong... Who Cares! Yet, It Has Plagued Us For Centuries. Thousands Have Died In The Name Of Their Beliefs, As It Will Be For All Time Im Sure. In This Case Though... Look At What Another Has Tried To Accomplish & Ideals That Have Been Fought For, To Protect, Before You Stab Them In Back!

Freedom Is A Privelege ! Not A Right... Look At Our History.

[nikki leitner]

i also do not believe in god. it is a shame that a man cant fight for america unless he believes in god. this country is based on freedom, freedom of religion, speech, ect.
our world has become such a bad place in the past years because politics have mixed with religion. it is an honorable, respectable, duty. My older brother is in the air force. nothing should get in the way of that. espacially this yound man who was respaectable of his peers who beleieved in god. he is a true american and a model of how people in our world should be. i support him and all athiest, gay, devil worthiping soldiers.

*facepalm*
Shouldn't matter if he's Atheist, Christian, Jewish, or some religion from the middle of Africa, he's serving his country.
People need to stop being intolerant pricks.

[A soldier]

The Army has problems yes, but it is not to say that the entire Army is blanketed with intolerance. I am an agnostic and I have had zero conflicts with fellow soldiers or superiors over my belief system. Taking one scenario and using it to represent the whole is an absurd over simplification of a rather complicated issue.

[Anne Odell]

"An atheist should no more volunteer for the Army than an atheist should join an Evangelical church."
What?!??

You've got to be kidding. If an American citizen, who happens to be an atheist, wants to fight for their country, they should be allowed to do so and not be treated with disrespect. Contrary to what Bush, Sr. said, atheists are American citizens too.

[Brent]

I am a veteran and an atheist. Both religion and the military demand obedience in return for a future reward. The military's support of afterlife beliefs makes it easier to get young people to risk their lives and limbs.

I was not allowed to put Atheist on my dogtag, just "No Rel Pref". The religious culture of the military is so intermingled that many in the military cannot see that there should be a separation of church and state.

[silex]

These are by far the most unintelligent comments I have ever come across. So he doesn't believe in god; he's got the balls to say it when half of you people are on this site looking for reasons to reaffirm you belief. On the other hand so what if he didn't want to stay out of the military. Ever think he did it like most people: for the money?

If any one of you is without sin, let him cast the first stone.

[James Williams]

Posted by: Atheistically Yours | May 04, 2008 at 09:46 PM

An Athiest,

I Personally Don't Know How Someone Could Look Down On A ...

Posted by: Josh | May 04, 2008 at 11:06 PM

i also do not believe in god. it is a shame that a man cant fight for america unless he believes in god. this country is based on freedom, freedom of religion, speech, ect....
______________________________

Hey, Josh! It looks like Atheistically Yours stole all of your capital letters.

[Matt]

To asdhjfasd:

Ack! Stop it, you're the reason people assume atheists have dogmatic faith too and are hence just as "silly" as religious people. It really is very simple...not ALL atheists have "faith" that there is no god and are going to try to go and convince others of it. Anyone who lacks belief in a god is an atheist, that's the ONLY requirement. Theist = believes in god(s), Atheist = Does not hold belief(s) in god(s). (Yes, even you people who insist on being called agnostic rather than atheist are actually atheists).

[Judy]

I put "non-denominational" down for dogtag info and someone down the line put "Roman Catholic". How's that for RIGHTS?

[anoldsoldier]

Anyone who believes we actually HAVE the freedoms granted in the constitution is worse than ignorant. We have neither freedom of religion nor freedom from religion.

[Captain-Varro]

I give a thumbs up to this brave soldier, praying something that doesn't exist won't save you from a hail of bullets, Plexiglas and steel might protect you....

Another violation of the constitution, another blow to freedom of belief/religion.

[Amanda]

I am so ashamed to be an American. This is not what our founders wanted for us. To be so self absorbed in religion that we become like those who we fight to defend our country from. They have a 'blind following' of their religion, I thought MAY BE the people here had a bit more sense than that. If the military is going to be like that about someone not conforming to a 'certain religion' then Iraq had all ready won. All of us might as well just either join the Islam religion or shoot ourselves!

[navy1990]

as a navy official and an agnostic i think that to punish a fellow country man for hes personal beliefs even though he is fighting along side you is not only stupid but the major should have been court marshaled for his ignorance...in addition i hope more agnostic and atheist people should join the military and show the assholes that it doesn't take god to fight a war...it takes bullets.

[Matt V]

Is this for real? It sounds too goofy to be real. "...threatened to bring charges against him for trying to hold a meeting of atheists in Iraq." Is he being threatened with charges for holding a meeting (or trying to)? Is that against regs? If so, how do soldiers go to church, or play poker, or play organized sports?

Also (James Williams), there is a subtle difference between agnostics and atheists. Agnostics (at least in theory) discount the certainty, or "truth value," of claims about gods, but do not reject the existence or possibility of gods. They are content with "I don't know and I can't know." On the other hand Atheists are certain that gods do not exist and place the burden of proof on the theist. For hardcore atheists it is not a "faith" or "belief" that there are no gods, it is a scientific fact.

As far as discrimination against atheists is concerned, it is rampant and blatant in Canada too. I often find it unsafe to discuss with religious people, even non-practising ones, because of the hatred that has been spread against us for centuries. People are often genuinely uncomfortable if another person rejects the metaphysical because it reminds them of their own unresolved existential conflicts. Like it or not, in North America and most of the 1st world, we are all "cultural Christians" (Dawkins, not me). This means baggage of this sort for generations to come.

[Mark Hiatt]

It seems easy to judge, but I, an agnostic/atheist, have a wife-to-be over in Iraq. She believes in Christ, but is not preachy (she would rather me stay the way I am rather than pretend). She is not stupid for joining the military. She got a free education. She hates being in Iraq...many do. The whole thing is not black and white. The people who have joined did so for different reasons, they are not dumb...they seek a better future. Being an atheist is hard, but so is life. People want comfort...they want answers...respect them when they respect you. We are all stuck on this small planet in a vast universe...don't judge...you are no better than anybody else...no matter what you think. your thoughts and ideas will be gone someday...all of the ideas and thoughts will...so life goes...just learn to respect...it is all we have.

[Jitendra]

Hello !!

I agree that nothing can considered as God because god cannot exist.

[Etna]

It Makes Me Sad When A Fellow Atheist Types Like This.

It also makes my brain hurt.

[agtPunk]

I lost all understanding of opinions and beliefs in this world we live. A man cannot hold his beliefs without the thoughts of others come impaling through his own skull. A man cannot hold his own opinion without the screamers of argument scratching at his eyes. Why can everyman not believe what he wants. Why can't others let a man believe what he wants. A mans mind is all he has. Our minds are the only true freedom we have left. The one place we can think any thought we'd like and believe any answer. The saddest thing is that you are only safe if your mind doesn't speak.

[hipmonkey]

I did a lot in the Army I don't believe in. You have to go with the group in that plcae. Why stand up for your beliefs and have 5,000 guys want to kick your ass. I think he's stupid. When in Rome..../or don't go to Rome.

[PV2 Atheist]

"Don't ask, don't tell," is a Military policy! SPC. Hall answered a question freely, so apparently he's not "whining" about anything. Equal Opportunity is another major policy, and he has every right to defend himself and his beliefs whether he is in the Military or not! The Maj. has no right, officer or not, to say a damn thing about his beliefs and SHOULD have EO charges brought against him! whats the difference between Atheists gathering and Christians or Catholics gathering????? What happen to the rights we fight and die to protect!

[Marienesgf]

So here's what i don't get. So many people are saying the troops are out there fighting for the freedom of those in other countries and for our own freedom, which includes freedom of speech and religion correct? Yet when a soldier expresses himself he's bashed for it?
we say we want our freedom and independence yet we all have to follow the same belief. yes this makes complete sense. be independent, as long as you believe in god. say what you want to say, as long as it doesn't offend or bash someones god.
it baffles me that as far as we've come we're still so close minded.
This soldier is out there risking his life, away from all of his loved ones, he deserves to believe what he wants to.
he's respecting those who believe differently then him, but because he doesn't believe in god he's a horrible person.
i'm sorry but i must say this is just stupid.

[thomas smith]

those who joined for profit are the worse sort, they are simply mercenaries or prostitutes take your choice.
i have a bit more respect for the dummies that believed the propaganda and think they are "protecting america"
viet vet and agnostic (bam bethut, ll corp 1879 com sq.)

[Antiques]

Atheists are definitely discriminated against everywhere other than large cities in America. Going by demographics of where most army recruits come from, this story is not surprising.

he should be able to believe in whatever he wants to believe. if i saw a crapload of people dying and i was killing people living in fear, i wouldn't believe in god either. so they should just leave it the hell alone

[lortis]

if he isn't allowed to have a meeting of athiests how can they have any other religious services? As my hero Jessie Ventura once said "Organized religion is meerely a crutch for the weak minded". Believe what you want but don't ask don't tell!

[Stakhanov]

Many here are saying that as an atheist he should do this and as an atheist he should do that...

You are forgetting something, there are no rules, regulations or strict codes for an atheist. No Atheist bible...you should all know that.

An atheist is someone who denies the existence of God or Gods, and claims there is no good proof or rationale in favour of believing in a God or Gods.

Besides that he, or she, can believe what he wants to believe politically, and personally. And as such is free to choose what to do with his life. If he feels military service is a good way to lead one's life and possibly end it (and I would hate to think what would have happened if no one signed up to fight in WWII for the Allied forces). Then he can go ahead and join the Army. You can be a pro-war atheist, or a Conservative atheist... I am not, incidentally, but my political views have little to do with a lack of belief. being an atheist does not need to inform your actions or views in any way more significant than one's denial of the existence of unicorns.

I am an Atheist, and one of the prime reasons I am one is because I don't like people telling me I have to do something or live in a certain fashion because of my beliefs or disbeliefs. Which is exactly what you are doing to him, and it sounds almost as bad as the religious right sometimes.

[t]

Judy,

As a citizen of this country, I refuse to let an uneducated majority make decisions for me. That is not the way, nor the reason, this country came into existence in the first place. If you can do no better than to chastise those who actually voice their right to be left to choose, please do not even bother to post.

If you choose to roll over and play dead, go ahead. But please do not do so under the guise of being a true atheist. If you really value the self over the collective, or some imaginary being, then have the courage to put it down in writing. Yes, I do have rights under this Constitution. I also refuse to let non-thinkers bully me into a regimented belief-system so they can sleep at night. Try it sometime. You might find that being true to yourself is an epiphany in and of itself.

[t]

Stakhanov-

I agree with your general argument, but your premise is false. Atheists are, in fact, still responsible for living up to rules and codes. Being and atheist does not free you to do whatever you please. There is still right and wrong, it just isn't dictated by someone else posing as a supernatural being. Therein lies the struggle.

To become an atheist simply because you do not like someone telling you what to do is a terrible thing. Become an atheist because you do not believe in the existence of a god. But please do not do it so that you can justify your actions because 'you want to.'

[ztb]

lol, Plexiglas.

and what's so damn bad about atheists meeting if religious folk can meet in a church?

[alec - uk]

appologies from an atheist for the moronic comments of some other atheists. i believe that seperation of church and state says it all really, and last time i checked (as our army is up to its balls in this war also) this is not a jihad from our p.o.v. the people in the world trade centre were americans, englishmen, french, spanish, chinese, mexican. they were christians, muslim, atheists, agnostics, protestants, catholics to name only a few. not just christians but people of all walks of faith. i salute anyone with the balls to defend our freedoms and if that line between us and those who would hurt us is comprised of christians, atheists or highly trained elephants i don't care, they should be treated with the utmost respect. their faith should never be asked let alone questioned. simple way to sort this out? not give us the option to say we are atheists, simply do not ask us what we believe at all. if you are fit and able bodied, competant and willing to fight for the rights of the free world then thats all anyone need know on any damn form. that major welborn would do well to remember that the people he is fighting to liberate are mostly muslim, and if he has a problem with non-christians he should resign and go home where he cant hurt anybody. i have every respect for america and its people, it is just such a shame its constitution is defended by assholes who quite clearly did not read past the right to bare arms.

[VPo]

How can anyone insult this guy for joining the army. It may not be my choice or your choice. He thought maybe because he would fight for his fellow men that they would not be intolerant of a mature world view.

He is doing the right thing and doing the only thing to change it. I believe that people should be able to discriminate against him and all other people for whatever reason (I'm an atheist myself) but there should be no discrimination in a public system that is not based on performance. There should be no required prayer meetings etc. The other soldiers have a right to not like him but that should not affect his career and position.

[Foldered]

lol@ being called gay a severe insult.

IT'S Two-Thousand-EIGHT.

[Drago]

I have all the respect in the world for this young man. I too am an atheist, if asked I would proudly say I am.
And to say he should or shouldnt be in the military,, thats his call as an american
Also to the post above saying "and I would hate to think what would have happened if no one signed up to fight in WWII for the Allied forces" what choice was there if you didnt join they drafted u